Hope Starts With Us: Mental Health Care Rooted in Community

In this episode, Stephanie Robertson, NAMI’s Director of Mental Health Equity Innovation, is joined by Dr. Sidney Hankerson, Associate Professor and Vice Chair in the Department of Psychiatry at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai. They discuss the incredible work being done in local communities by Dr. Hankerson’s work with the HOPE Center and TRIUMPH study. Dr. Hankerson also explores the ways these programs collaborate with community-based organizations and offers advice about building meaningful and lasting partnerships that support mental health through initiatives rooted in community.

You can find additional episodes of this NAMI podcast and others at nami.org/podcast.

00:00:00:02 – 00:00:16:17
Dr. Hankerson
To increase the likelihood that a program will be sustained in the setting that it’s delivered, you have to engage the people that will benefit from those services from the outset, and have to empower them to lead, direct, and shape it.

00:00:16:19 – 00:00:42:12
Stephanie
Welcome to Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. I’m your guest host today, Stephanie Robertson, NAMI’s Director of Mental Health Equity Innovation. NAMI started this podcast because we believe that hope starts with us. And this really focuses on five things. Hope starts with us talking about mental health. Hope starts with us making information accessible.

00:00:42:14 – 00:01:13:22
Stephanie
Hope starts with us providing resources and practical advice. Hope starts with us sharing our stories, and hope starts with us breaking the stigma. If you or a loved one is struggling with a mental health condition and have been looking for hope, we made this podcast for you. Hope starts with all of us. Hope is a collective. We hope that each episode, with each conversation brings you into that collective so you know you are not alone.

00:01:14:00 – 00:01:45:08
Stephanie
Again, my name is Stephanie Robertson and I am the Director of Mental Equity Innovation here at NAMI. I lead the Community Health Equity Alliance, a community based initiative focused on improving access to care for people with serious mental illness, especially in Black African ancestry and other minoritized communities. The theme of today’s episode centers on outreach and strategies to expand access to quality, culturally responsive mental health care in under-resourced communities.

00:01:45:09 – 00:02:13:18
Stephanie
At the core of this is relationship building, community connection and creating inclusive spaces where people feel seen and valued. Our guest today is recognized as a premier leader in research and innovative efforts to reduce stigma, address disparities, and foster a culturally responsive mental health care, especially within communities of color, through meaningful community based partnerships. We’ll discuss what drives this work,

00:02:13:20 – 00:02:42:07
Stephanie
the role of values like equity and service, and how to build trust and deepen community engagement. Finally, we’ll discuss practical strategies for supporting mental health at the local level, focusing on how individuals can build community partnerships and make a meaningful impact in promoting mental wellness. So our amazing guest today is Dr. Sidney Hankerson, associate professor and Vice Chair in the Department of Psychiatry at the Icahn School of Medicine at Mount Sinai.

00:02:42:09 – 00:03:11:21
Stephanie
His research is focused on reducing racial mental health treatment disparities by partnering with sports clubs, faith-based, and other community-based organizations. Dr. Hankerson is a member of the National Football League’s Mental Wellness Committee, and is a second opinion physician for the National Basketball Association. Dr. Hankerson has received a number of awards and recognitions, including from the National Academy of Medicine, which selected him as one of ten physicians in the US Sports Emerging Leaders in Health and Medicine program.

00:03:11:23 – 00:03:42:23
Stephanie
He was awarded the American Psychiatric Association Distinguished Service Award for significant contributions to the field of psychiatry in the US, and most recently, he has been honored for the 2024 Presidential Lifetime Achievement Service Award for his commitment to providing high quality, innovative mental health services through developing partnerships with sports clubs and faith-based organizations. Dr. Hankerson earned his BA from UVA and his MD and MBA from Emory University.

00:03:43:00 – 00:04:12:07
Stephanie
After completing a psychiatry residency and chief residency at Grady Memorial Hospital, he pursued his research fellowship funded by the National Institute for Mental Health at Columbia University, where he spent 13 years on faculty before joining Mount Sinai in his current leadership roles. Dr. Hankerson has been a keynote or featured speaker at the White House, United Nations, National Institute of Mental Health, the US Department of Health and Human Services, and Aspen Ideas Festival, among others.

00:04:12:09 – 00:04:19:14
Stephanie
So it is truly an honor to have him on today’s episode and for me to be the one to interview him. So thank you so much for joining us today.

00:04:19:16 – 00:04:31:16
Dr. Hankerson
Thank you, Stephanie. For that tremendously warm introduction. And I just want to thank NAMI just for having this podcast and really sharing hope with the world.

00:04:31:18 – 00:04:54:08
Stephanie
So before we get to the first question, I did want to set the stage a bit for our audience. You’ve been behind a number of impactful initiatives, some of which we will talk about today, that aim to reduce mental health stigma. And Black communities and other communities of color, while connecting individuals experiencing symptoms of mental health challenges to culturally responsive care.

00:04:54:10 – 00:05:12:20
Stephanie
So your approach is really rooted in both research and community partnerships, also grounded in the lived experiences of those you serve. My first question then is can you share what experiences or influences guiding you toward this work in mental health advocacy, especially within the Black and other communities of color?

00:05:12:21 – 00:05:55:03
Dr. Hankerson
Yeah. So I think the probably the most formative experience that shaped my passion for mental health advocacy was when I was Chief Resident of Psychiatry at Grady Memorial Hospital. So Grady is a is a large public hospital in Atlanta that is akin to Bellevue or Harlem Hospital in New York City. Upwards of 90% of the patients that I saw when I was Chief Resident at Grady were African-American, many of whom were on Medicaid or Medicare or had no insurance, and had extremely low income.

00:05:55:03 – 00:06:30:02
Dr. Hankerson
So it truly was a safety net hospital. And the way that our residency was set up was that the physicians at Emory provided care at Emory University Hospital, which was the primary hospital right next to Emory University, that the college and the medical school. And we also provided care at Grady, which was this large public hospital. And I was just perplexed, and heartbroken and at the same time, enraged at the disparities in care that I saw, provided at Grady versus care provided at Emory.

00:06:30:04 – 00:06:59:05
Dr. Hankerson
I remember physicians talking about “Grady patients” in a very negative way, which meant “Grady patient” was code for an overweight African American who typically was unable to pay for the care that they received. That became a “Grady patient.” And so there were a lot of discriminatory marks from physicians towards the patients. So that was number one.

00:06:59:06 – 00:07:23:12
Dr. Hankerson
I think point two was that during my year of Chief Resident, I was responsible for all admissions to the inpatient unit in psychiatry. And many of the patients who were admitted to the unit said that they wanted to see their pastor when they–when we offered them a family meeting or they wanted to talk to their faith leader when they were thinking about changing their medications.

00:07:23:14 – 00:08:00:08
Dr. Hankerson
And so that really impressed upon me the importance for so many people, in the Black community of the role of faith and spirituality and in mental health and in health in general. And then I think the third thing that really struck me was that I realized that these disparities in care, the fact that African Americans were getting to care are much more advanced and requiring inpatient stays for like depression or schizophrenia or other mental health conditions, really wanted me to produce generalizable knowledge to figure out ways to address this.

00:08:00:08 – 00:08:12:09
Dr. Hankerson
And that’s what led me to go to Columbia to do a research fellowship focused on mental health disparities so we could increase access to care for people who live in under-resourced communities.

00:08:12:11 – 00:08:33:08
Stephanie
So I love the fact that you took this knowledge you had and moved to New York and began to really work with different organizations in New York City. And so I want to talk a little bit about those initiatives that you have created or helped create and include the H.O.P.E Center, which HOPE stands for,

00:08:33:08 – 00:08:56:19
Stephanie
and I love this, healing on purpose and evolving. And that works to reduce mental health stigma in communities of color and the TRIUMPH study, which partners with Black churches in New York City to identify community members experiencing stress, anxiety, grief, or depression. I want to take some time just to explore the origins of both initiatives and how they evolved, and what you envision for their future.

00:08:56:19 – 00:09:09:03
Stephanie
So, let’s start off with the TRIUMPH study. Could you walk us through what made this study unique and how it helped promote mental health equity and increase access to care for mental challenges like depression and anxiety?

00:09:09:05 – 00:09:42:05
Dr. Hankerson
Yes. So the TRIUMPH study stands for–TRIUMPH stands for transforming your mental health through prayer and healing. Transforming your mental health through prayer and healing. And we named this study TRIUMPH because we know that we ultimately want folks in our communities to triumph over depression and anxiety and all mental health conditions. And we sought to kind of bridge the divide that many people of faith have.

00:09:42:05 – 00:10:02:21
Dr. Hankerson
Many people say, well, I just need to pray this away, or I just only need to talk to a spiritual leader as opposed to getting formal mental health treatment. We wanted to emphasize that you do both. Yes, you can have your spiritual practices. And yes, it’s important to get healing from mental health professionals, but that’s what the name of TRIUMPH means.

00:10:02:23 – 00:10:49:01
Dr. Hankerson
So this study is, it was a five year study where we screened people for depression and anxiety. This is the largest church-based study in the country ever conducted. Screening people with validated scales like the patient health questionnaire nine and generalized anxiety disorder seven in Black churches. And then when community members, based on their survey results, had elevated symptoms of depression or anxiety, we trained a group of community health workers who are members of these churches to be able to provide free, evidence-based counseling to members of their church who are struggling with depression and anxiety.

00:10:49:03 – 00:11:21:13
Dr. Hankerson
And after five sessions of counseling with our community health workers, they wanted additional services, the community health workers could refer them to mental health treatment. And so it has been an amazing journey, of the TRIUMPH study. And we have made tremendous partnerships. NAMI, the New York City chapter of NAMI has been at many of our screening events, American Foundation for Suicide Prevention, the New York City Department of Health and Mental Hygiene, just to name a few.

00:11:21:15 – 00:11:42:13
Dr. Hankerson
So it really has become a community and five borough wide initiative, where we’re screening people for depression, connecting them to community health workers, and then addressing some of the social factors like housing insecurity or food insecurity that impact their mental health and then connecting them to care.

00:11:42:15 – 00:12:00:02
Stephanie
Have you had any other churches or organizations throughout the country come to ask how you did this and ask for help in their own areas? I live in the South, for example, North Carolina or I don’t know if this is a template for other churches as well or it could be a template.

00:12:00:04 – 00:12:24:08
Dr. Hankerson
Well, I am very hopeful, that this model can be scaled in the South. Would be a perfect place to do it. You know, Georgia is considered the Bible Belt and Southeast part of the country. So we would love to scale it. And there’s been several interest from partners and institutions in Texas, in the southeast, and even in the Midwest to replicate this model.

00:12:24:09 – 00:12:50:09
Stephanie
Thank you for sharing more information about that. I love how you are helping to connect communities, especially those communities that really do turn to faith and explaining that it is faith plus. I think that is something that my family as, one of the families that probably would come to the church and it’s the same thing, you know, you’re not sad, you know, we’re not depressed, you’re just sad.

00:12:50:09 – 00:13:03:08
Stephanie
Make sure you pray. And that ended up not being enough. I needed to have treatment as well. But I didn’t learn that until much later on in life. So the fact that this exists and that it’s helping individuals and families as well, I think is phenomenal.

00:13:03:10 – 00:13:21:09
Dr. Hankerson
No, thank you so much for that. And that’s really the bridge that we are trying to connect, to say that, hey, you know, we recognize and acknowledge and encourage people to embrace their faith traditions and at the same time and not let that be a barrier to getting formal mental health treatment.

00:13:21:11 – 00:13:47:13
Stephanie
So I do want to turn to another major initiative, called the HOPE Center, that you’ve worked with. And again, I want to go back to acknowledging this, the name of HOPE Center, which is healing on purpose and evolving. I want to talk about what the inspiration behind the name was, and how does it connect to the importance of language and how you envision communities discussing and dealing with mental health challenges or mental illness.

00:13:47:15 – 00:13:52:03
Stephanie
And then we can go more into detail about what H.O.P.E Center actually does, which is a lot.

00:13:52:05 – 00:14:26:03
Dr. Hankerson
Yeah. So the name of the HOPE Center was created by Pastor Michael Walrond, who is the lead pastor of First Corinthian Baptist Church. First Corinthian Baptist Church is a church in Harlem with over 8000 members that actually created the HOPE Center. And Pastor Walrond was very intentional about naming the HOPE Center, healing on purpose and evolving because he wanted people to be intentional about getting mental health care.

00:14:26:04 – 00:14:51:14
Dr. Hankerson
And language is very important that the HOPE, for example, people who receive services at the HOPE Center are called innovators. They are not called patients or clients. They are called innovators because we believe that as innovators, they are the authors of their story. They are creators of a new destiny. And they are reshaping their narratives.

00:14:51:14 – 00:14:55:05
Dr. Hankerson
Thus, they are truly healing on purpose and evolving.

00:14:55:07 – 00:15:15:19
Stephanie
That was more than I could ask for. Thank you. It’s just like, this is fantastic. But to hear the story behind it and being called an innovator, and really understanding that you are in control of your own destiny, and then how do you infuse that into every part of that, including the language is phenomenal.

00:15:15:19 – 00:15:38:11
Stephanie
So thank you for sharing that. Now I do want to go into what the H.O.P.E Center does. You talked a little bit about how it began and focusing on the work, connecting mental health care to communities of color. And so how does it do that? How did it start and where do you anticipate it going? What kind of work from here on out do you anticipate the HOPE Center doing?

00:15:38:13 – 00:16:04:21
Dr. Hankerson
Yeah. So the HOPE Center was created in December of 2016. And so this year will be its ninth year in existence. And I do want to give just a warm shout out to my dear colleague and friend, Dr. Lena Green, who is the executive director of the HOPE Center. I am actually, in addition to my roles at Mount Sinai, I am medical director of the HOPE Center.

00:16:04:23 – 00:16:44:00
Dr. Hankerson
And so what the HOPE Center does is it provides community members who do not have to be members of the church. So the HOPE Center provides services to anyone who seeks mental health care. It provides access to 12 sessions of evidence-based psychotherapy, mostly CBT, or cognitive behavioral therapy, but also interpersonal psychotherapy. Clinicians are also able to provide evidence-based treatment for people who experience prolonged grief, thanks to a partnership with Dr. Kathy Scheer at Columbia University.

00:16:44:01 – 00:17:14:15
Dr. Hankerson
So again, 12 sessions for free of evidence-based psychotherapy. Over the last two years, because of a partnership and a grant that we received from the Mother Cabrini Health Foundation. We’ve been able to have Mount Sinai Psychiatry residents provide direct services, medication management, and therapy for free again at the HOPE Center. And so now the HOPE Center is providing wraparound services.

00:17:14:17 – 00:17:47:14
Dr. Hankerson
We’re actually in the process of engaging case managers to provide access to social service needs that innovators have. So it is a wonderful clinical service, but it also provides unique community-based programs. An example of that is what’s called the Sneaker. So the Sneaker Ball is a program that the HOPE Center has every year where people get dressed up in their in their best suits and dresses, but they wear their coolest kicks, they break out their Jordans, their Nikes, they’re Adidas.

00:17:47:16 – 00:18:05:01
Dr. Hankerson
And the whole purpose of this gala, this Sneaker Ball, is to shed a light on the youth mental health crisis that is really ravaging our country. So we want people to tap into kind of their youth by wearing their kicks. So that’s just an example of some of the innovative programming that the HOPE Center is doing.

00:18:05:03 – 00:18:11:17
Stephanie
I would not be able to go to that. The coolest kicks I have are some like Teva flip flops.

00:18:11:17 – 00:18:15:21
Dr. Hankerson
That works.

00:18:15:23 – 00:18:22:08
Stephanie
That’s amazing. And I just want to make sure the executive director is Dr. Lena Green, is that what you said?

00:18:22:10 – 18:25:08
Dr. Hankerson
Lena Green, yeas.

18:25:08 – 18:35:08
Stephanie
Just seeing something like this and seeing it exists. And I think this focus that you just talked about on the youth piece is such an a wonderful idea that I wish had existed when I was growing up.

00:18:35:10 – 00:18:52:22
Stephanie
That should exist everywhere. And so the fact that you have helped support this and that Dr. Green is making sure that it does all these amazing initiatives is great. And I want to go into a little bit about the youth mental health piece. And, and one of the programs, I believe, that is part of many programs.

00:18:52:22 – 00:19:03:03
Stephanie
So there’s a lot of programs at HOPE Center, which is again, Dr. Green is awesome. But the THRIVE program and talk a little bit about that.

00:19:03:05 – 00:19:38:21
Dr. Hankerson
Sure. So THRIVE is a program that Dr. Green developed, for youth ages 13 to 19 that is delivered at the HOPE Center. It’s an eight week course that is lead in groups for kids over eight consecutive weeks. And it’s really focused on, equipping them with the language about what common mental health disorders are, the tools to be able to cope with stress, and the supports to be able to engage people in their networks and their families and communities when they’re encountering stress.

00:19:38:23 – 00:20:04:12
Dr. Hankerson
And they do that with really innovative ways. They do that with arts. They do that through taking the kids to upstate New York for a weekend, kind of in a retreat where they can just really connect with nature and they infuse principles of mindfulness and meditation. So it’s really a holistic program. And the results and the feedback from youth and parents has been really tremendous.

00:20:04:12 – 00:20:06:18
Dr. Hankerson
So that that is the THRIVE program.

00:20:06:20 – 00:20:35:17
Stephanie
Doing my research, I read a little bit about it, but like these initiatives sound phenomenal. And again, I keep thinking about things that I would have loved to have had when I was younger, that I would have loved my family to have been a part of as well. I think that’s missing a lot in that, you know, young adults may be experiencing mental health challenges or may not even know and are afraid to talk to their parents about it because of the, you know, the stigma and being told, go pray to God or–I love my mom. She used to tell me, “go take a nap.”

00:20:35:17 – 00:20:57:13
Stephanie
She still does. I love you, Mom. Go take a nap. And you know what? There’s some truth to that. But anyway, so another initiative that came out of the HOPE Center is the Hope and Harlem Conference, which is held at the First Corinthian Baptist Church in Harlem and brings together faith, sports, and mental health, featuring professional athletes alongside leaders in medicine and education.

00:20:57:15 – 00:21:07:17
Stephanie
I’d love to learn a little bit more about what inspired the creation of this conference and why it’s important to bring such diverse, people together to discuss mental health.

00:21:07:19 – 00:21:45:22
Dr. Hankerson
Yeah. So, we’ve had two, Hope and Harlem conferences. The first one was in 2023 and it emerged out of this grant that we got from the Mother Cabrini Health Foundation. So I do want to just say a big thank you to Mother Cabrini for their support. And it was a way that we wanted to shine a light on the stressors at the time. You know, just coming out of COVID in 2023, there was a tremendous amount of prolonged grief because so many people– because New York City was the epicenter of the virus.

00:21:46:00 – 00:22:21:02
Dr. Hankerson
We’re still coping with just loss and a tremendous amount of loss. And so the first Hope and Harlem conference in 2023 was designed to celebrate, mental health professionals, community members who we called Heroes of Hope. So the barbers, the beauticians, the pastors, the psychiatrist, the people who were known and unknown that provided Herculean efforts to address mental health care and supports for the community in COVID and beyond.

00:22:21:04 – 00:23:09:06
Dr. Hankerson
Tricia Hersey, who is a New York Times bestselling author of a book called Restless Resistance. I was a keynote speaker and it was just a wonderful celebration of the mental health champions in Harlem and in New York City. And so we use that Hope and Harlem conference as a way to garner support for the HOPE Center and to build interest and really generate feet and boots on the ground as to what the community wanted and the community was loud and clear that they wanted to shine a light on the youth mental health crisis, specifically the crisis in the Black community that the rates of suicidal ideation and suicide attempts among Black youth

00:23:09:08 – 00:23:36:23
Dr. Hankerson
is at its highest levels ever in this country’s history. Black youth, for the first time, have higher rates of suicidal ideation in youth– than white youth. And so the community wanted to shine a light on this issue. And one of the ways that we thought we could do that and really engage youth was through sports. So the second annual Hope and Harlem Conference, was in 2024, and we had professional, retired athletes.

00:23:37:01 – 00:24:07:04
Dr. Hankerson
Allan Houston, New York Knicks legend, Derek Anderson, who is a retired NBA pro and NBA world champion. Natasha Hastings who’s a Harlem native and won a gold medal in the 2008 Olympics. And doctor Bill Parham, who was the head of the National Basketball Association’s mental wellness committee, were all on a panel where they share their experiences with mental health challenges

00:24:07:06 – 00:24:34:14
Dr. Hankerson
and how they coped as professional athletes. We also had kids from Harlem. Youth shared their personal stories and their connections to sports and how they used sports as a way to build community, foster resilience, and to give them hope in times of distress when facing tremendous stressors. And so the Hope and Harlem conference around youth sports and mental health was also really well received.

00:24:34:16 – 00:24:41:22
Dr. Hankerson
And we’re in the process of, you know, building out and listening to the community to see what the next conference will look like.

00:24:42:00 – 00:24:56:06
Stephanie
I wanted to kind of go from that to talk a little bit more about your work within sports. And what that has meant for you and connecting sports to mental health.

00:24:56:08 – 00:25:24:09
Dr. Hankerson
Yeah. So my love of sports really started in high school. Like many kids my age, I was a huge Michael Jordan fan, loved all things Chicago Bulls, and basketball was really my first passion. Played basketball in high school and actually played on the junior varsity team at UVA. And basketball was one of the things along with my church community growing up that really some supported me

00:25:24:11 – 00:25:49:11
Dr. Hankerson
and in times of tremendous emotional challenge in my high school years. And so I have– that passion for the intersection of sports and mental health has always been a part of me. And my first connection to professional sports was the NFL. And so–and since 2019, I have been a member of the NFL’s Behavioral Wellness Committee.

00:25:49:13 – 00:26:14:00
Dr. Hankerson
And I do want to acknowledge Dr. Nyaka Niilampti who is the Vice President of Player Wellness for the NFL. She and I were on a panel together, and I was talking about the importance of identifying and supporting depression in men, in particular among men of color and how depression and Black men can look different than compared to other men.

00:26:14:01 – 00:26:38:11
Dr. Hankerson
And so, you know, she and I, stayed in contact and then I was nominated and was accepted to be a member of the NFL’s Behavioral Wellness Committee. And what this committee does is, were responsible for two main things. One is education. So we provide education to the coaches, to the medical staff, to the players, and to their families.

00:26:38:13 – 00:27:02:12
Dr. Hankerson
And two is partnerships. So one of the things we’re exploring is partnerships with various organizations, certainly exploring the partnership and met with NAMI’s leadership about how NAMI can– it can be more connected to the NFL. That’s really the charge of the NFL’s Behavioral Wellness Committee. Because of my role on that committee, I was, connected to leadership at the NBA.

00:27:02:14 – 00:27:28:13
Dr. Hankerson
And for the past two years, I have been a second opinion physician for the National Basketball Association. So in this capacity, I’m one of two psychiatrists that if one of the players has a mental health crisis, if they, you know, are struggling with depression or anxiety and they see their team clinician, but then want a second opinion, I’m one of two psychiatrists that they would see.

00:27:28:15 – 00:27:38:04
Dr. Hankerson
So that’s been a great, you know, experience there. And the connections with the NBA helped us to reach out to Allan Houston and Derek Anderson and Dr. Parham for the Hope and Harlem Conference.

00:27:38:06 – 00:27:50:04
Stephanie
Thank you for sharing that. But I feel like I saw a post where you talked about– there was an event I think you did in Harlem. And it was youth-centered, but I don’t know, I can’t remember exactly what it was.

00:27:50:06 – 00:28:30:13
Dr. Hankerson
I have a grant now called Brothers Connect, and this is a program we where we are implementing an evidence-based suicide prevention program into YMCA basketball leagues for boys of color. And it’s called Brothers Connect. And so what we want to do ultimately is to train coaches, train parents, and train youth about how to manage stress, how to recognize the signs and symptoms of depression and suicidal thoughts and behaviors, and then how to engage their social networks for help.

00:28:30:15 – 00:28:55:00
Dr. Hankerson
And so we are in the process of adapting Brothers Connect to be implemented in the YMCA basketball league. And we’re also going to be implementing it in Boys and Girls Clubs across the five boroughs in New York City. And so we think this is a really promising approach, and that can be scaled and translated to all other sports to really transform the language around mental health in youth and sports.

00:28:55:02 – 00:29:09:02
Stephanie
Thank you. And that actually answered another question about are we going to be able to see something like that in other parts of the country? But creating these initiatives that are to be scalable, I think is, it’s important as well. I mean, working in New York City, I get it, I lived in New York as well.

00:29:09:02 – 00:29:27:12
Stephanie
It’s a lot of people there, so– but being able to take these programs and implement them in other places or help other organizations to do that would be fantastic. So glad to hear that that is also a part of the plan. Okay, I want to switch gears a little bit now and talk a little bit about your research.

00:29:27:14 – 00:30:03:16
Stephanie
You’ve emphasized working with communities to really understand how to, one, engage in honest conversations about mental health and mental illness and to, two, help individuals better access culturally responsive resources and care. So with this in mind, I’d love for you to talk a little bit about community partnered participatory research, what it is and how you use this model with collaborating with community based organizations to really deliver mental health support. Like who are the key stakeholders and what do you feel makes this approach more effective maybe than other models?

00:30:03:18 – 00:30:38:13
Dr. Hankerson
Yeah. Well, to describe community partnered research, I first like to describe it’s two co-founders. So on the one hand, there was the late Dr. Loretta Jones. Dr. Jones was the CEO of a nonprofit organization called Healthy African-American families based in Crenshaw in Los Angeles. So Crenshaw is one of the most under-resourced communities in LA. And Dr. Jones, was just a warrior for social justice and health equity in that community.

00:30:38:13 – 00:31:07:11
Dr. Hankerson
She was the go to person for anything dealing with Black health, whether it was HIV, AIDS, whether it was infant mortality and maternal health, and then eventually depression. So Dr. Jones, on one hand partnered with Dr. Ken Wells, who’s a renowned psychiatrist and professor of psychiatry at UCLA School of Medicine. And Dr. Wells was really an expert at depression services. At the time,

00:31:07:11 – 00:31:41:21
Dr. Hankerson
he did a lot of research in primary care setting. So how do you provide quality depression care when you go see your general doctor? And so, Dr. Wells, the psychiatrist and Dr. Jones, the social justice warrior, joined forces to see if it was possible to translate or transfer the care that you get in in primary care into community settings like churches, like barbershops, like social service agencies.

00:31:41:23 – 00:32:20:12
Dr. Hankerson
And they created this groundbreaking study called Community Partners in Care. And in that study, they utilized and fine tuned this research of community partnered research, where you have a community advisory board or steering council, which is co-led by a community member, in this case, Loretta Jones and an academic leader in this case, Dr. Wells. And this format ensures that the community and academia are equally– are equal partners, and it really provides the boots on the ground.

00:32:20:12 – 00:32:48:01
Dr. Hankerson
It really addresses social determinants of health. And it really, especially in communities of color who are often distrustful of research, it builds trust, you know, with the target community. And so that is what community partnered research is. It’s health researchers and community partners working lockstep together to address an issue of interest to that community. They focused on depression.

00:32:48:02 – 00:33:14:07
Dr. Hankerson
I met them, believe it or not, at Roscoe’s Chicken and Waffles and Crenshaw in 2014. And I remember, Loretta, just, she was just, just so, kind and yet also just so focused and so serious. And she just looked at me, she heard about what I wanted to do, and she just kind of paused and said, you just have to show me you really–

00:33:14:08 – 00:33:52:20
Dr. Hankerson
you’re ready to do the work. And those are words that I remember for her. You got to do the work. And so we replicated her coalition in Harlem and have had tremendous success. And with the TRIUMPH study supporting the HOPE Center and providing oversight for our Brothers Connect study. So that is community partnered research and multiple clinical trials have shown that this approach, this method of community leaders and mental health professionals working together reduces depressive symptoms in communities of color to a greater degree than traditional research.

00:33:53:00 – 00:33:59:00
Dr. Hankerson
Expecting people to come to researchers? No, going out into the community is more effective.

00:33:59:02 – 00:34:20:03
Stephanie
How often is this type of collaboration done, this type of, you know, replicating this through– you took it and took it to Harlem. How often is it done in general? I mean, this is the first time I’ve heard about it. I participated in a study last year and then that’s been–that’s a couple of decades where I have never heard that before.

00:34:20:05 – 00:34:40:00
Stephanie
And, you know, with my own mental health challenges, to be a part of a study that centered my voice that will eventually create wraparound services, you know, for young adults of color who have ADHD. You know, and I thought it was an amazing thing. And I was like, I don’t understand why there’s isn’t more of this.

00:34:40:00 – 00:34:56:07
Stephanie
And so I’d love to hear more about just if this is being done or if this is something that will be done more of throughout the country. I mean, I’d love to be able to see more of these types of partnerships. Just wondering how well known it is and how much it is used.

00:34:56:09 – 00:35:23:02
Dr. Hankerson
Well, community partnered research is growing tremendous momentum. I think people realize that, to increase the likelihood that a program will be sustained in the setting that it’s delivered, you have to engage the people that will benefit from those services from the outset and have to empower them to lead, direct, and shape it. And so it’s definitely getting more traction.

00:35:23:02 – 00:35:39:22
Dr. Hankerson
It’s manualized. So Dr. Wells and Dr. Jones wrote a manual of the specific steps of community partnered research. There’s a, literally a cookbook for how to replicate it. And it definitely can be scaled and tailored for other communities.

00:35:40:00 – 00:35:59:15
Stephanie
I’m also asking because my job, I do work for the Community Health Equity Alliance, which really is focusing on the communities. And so trying to figure out all the different types of ways that I’m able to do that. And so this is great to hear as well. We’ll look up the manual and I probably will contact you after to ask about it.

00:35:59:17 – 00:36:00:17
Dr. Hankerson
Of course.

00:36:00:19 – 00:36:22:10
Stephanie
I want to be aware of our time here together. This is an amazing conversation. I really do appreciate you spending the time just talking about the work you’ve done, the communities you’ve supported, and why it is important to you. I’d love to take a moment for our listeners who want to do similar things within their own communities.

00:36:22:15 – 00:36:39:23
Stephanie
What kind of advice would you offer on building meaningful, lasting partnerships? To help reduce stigma, extend access to care, promote mental wellness, to do everything that you are doing right now with a lot of these initiatives, with the communities. Just loved to hear some advice.

00:36:40:01 – 00:37:06:13
Dr. Hankerson
Sure. So my advice to anyone who is interested in community partnered research and they don’t– not sure where to begin, I would say think about the setting either now or as you grew up, and think about the ABCs. So just remember the ABCs and that stands for the A is where did you feel most alive? The B is where did you feel the greatest sense of belonging.

00:37:06:15 – 00:37:37:14
Dr. Hankerson
And the C is where did you feel most connected? So alive really taps into your passion. The belonging really taps into your purpose, and the connected really taps into a sense of community. So alive, belonging, and connection. So for me, the two places that I felt most alive, that I felt the most sense of belonging, and most connected was the church and sports.

00:37:37:16 – 00:38:02:23
Dr. Hankerson
And so that’s a big part of why I am doing research in those settings, because I know, one, they have tremendous reach, two, they’re trusted, and three, it can be scaled not just in the country but across the world. So the places that I think are untapped by my line of research now are, the arts. So many people get passionate through arts.

00:38:03:00 – 00:38:35:09
Dr. Hankerson
And so that’s one place. Social service agencies. So many things happen and community happens in social service agencies. There’s been a lot of work done in barbershops and beauty salons. So I would just encourage anyone to think about the ABCs and then begin to engage relationships and talk to people about what–how you can add value and your ideas you’d like to have, and try to form a partnership with leaders in those spaces.

00:38:35:11 – 00:38:56:06
Stephanie
That is so amazing. I may have started to tear up a little bit, to be honest. To hear it put that way, and then immediately started thinking of the places that did those things for me. And band was one of them. I was a band nerd. Before we conclude, I’d like to ask you the question we ask every podcast guest.

00:38:56:08 – 00:39:13:05
Stephanie
The world can be a difficult place, and sometimes it could be hard to hold on to hope. That’s why each episode we dedicate the last couple of minutes of our podcast to a special segment called Hold On to Hope. So, Dr. Hankerson, can you tell us what helps you hold on to hope?

00:39:13:07 – 00:39:40:12
Dr. Hankerson
Yeah, three things really help me hold on to hope. One, is the power of treatment. You know, treatment works. You know, whether it’s therapy, whether it’s medications, whether it’s their combination. There have been so many advancements and developments and mental health treatments over the years. That gives me hope. And so many more are on the horizon.

00:39:40:14 – 00:40:09:06
Dr. Hankerson
So one thing that gives me hope is treatment. The second thing is the power of community. Today we’ve talked a lot about sports leagues, faith-based organizations. Stephanie, you talked about band and the power of music and band for you. I think the thing that gives me most joy is spending time in community. And there’s tremendous power in community.

00:40:09:08 – 00:40:47:04
Dr. Hankerson
And communities are pushing back against changes in resources and stressors and loss and creating creative ways to solve their own problems. So the second thing that gives me hope is community. And the third thing that gives me hope is the power of people sharing their narratives, their shared stories. I’ve had the pleasure of working with the most elite athletes, of working with CEOs, of working with people who just live around the way.

00:40:47:06 – 00:41:10:23
Dr. Hankerson
And each of them has a unique journey. Each of them has a unique story. Each of them has a story that has been shaped by their culture, experiences, and their perspectives. And as we share our stories, it can shatter the walls of stigma, it can shatter the walls of shame, and it can shatter the walls of silence.

00:41:11:01 – 00:41:19:22
Dr. Hankerson
So as people share their stories, that gives me hope. So treatment, community, and shared stories really give me hope.

00:41:20:00 – 00:41:44:06
Stephanie
Thank you so much for being on this episode, again, and for giving me the pleasure and honor of being the one to interview you. Very grateful for your time and expertise. It’s really been a pleasure discussing your work and your commitment to meeting people where they are. But just to learn more about you and why this is so critical for you to do.

00:41:44:08 – 00:41:47:02
Stephanie
So thank you again so much for taking the time to be with us today.

00:41:47:04 – 00:41:53:06
Dr. Hankerson
It was my pleasure. And again, thank you all for creating this space to share hope with the world.

00:41:53:08 – 00:42:32:01
Stephanie
So this has been Hope Starts With Us, a podcast by NAMI, the National Alliance on Mental Illness. If you are looking for mental health resources, you are not alone. To connect with NAMI Helpline and find local resources, visit NAMI.org/help. Text “helpline” to 62640 or dial 800-950-NAMI (6264). Or if you are experiencing an immediate suicide, substance use, or mental health crisis, please call or text 908 to speak with a trained support specialist or visit 988lifeline.org.

00:42:32:03 – 00:42:36:10
Stephanie
I’m Stephanie Robertson, your guest host, and thank you for listening and be well.